Monday, October 29, 2007

We don't need limits

Just thought I would link back to my post titled What immigration problem? As one of the bloggers who simply spout out the Conservative Party press releases I thought it worth noting that I don't think we need limits on immigration. I do however agree that we need to sort out the idiotic benefit system that creates a marketplace that sees Brits sitting on their arses not taking jobs that can only therefore be serviced by economic migrants.


Barnacle Bill said...

What annoys me is that UK employers say they must use skilled immigrants because of a lack of skills in the local workforce.
Says a lot about how well all the changes in education have done in the past ten years under this lot.
But we certainly need to sort the welfare system out in this country. Make it better to be in work than sat at home watching daytime TV.
However, I have this theory that NULabor have a underhand policy of producing a brain dead electorate. Who will be more pliable & gullible. Unable to resist the advance of NuLabor.

Alex said...

The rush of immigration and failure to deport failed asylum seekers is probably nothing more than incompetence. But it is a measure of how incompetent Labour are that local authority budgets have been so badly strained.

Anonymous said...

Dizzy, with regret I can't agree with your position.

Your position assumes a liberal laissez-faire attitude to an issue which is fundamentally ideological. You and I both reject ideology as neglecting the human condition. I am therefore somewhat surprised at your position.

We have to work with the electorate which we have, and most of them were born here, and the rest of them have lived here for some time.

The issue is that economic migrants are effectively subsidised. (not all) in various manners, whilst those who do not work are subsidised to not work.

What is more, migrants have their costs, in terms of schooling, housing and so on.

It is far more complex than "if there are jobs they will come"

dizzy said...

My position is not an ideological one as it happens. I simply neither care about immigration particularly, nor accept that it is anything like the problem bot main parties currently think it is. It's very populist and easy to talk about immigration, but I'm a bit of a freakonomics lover think it far more a symptom of something than a cause. Tackle the cause. That's not driven by any political ideology, it's more an analysis of the system and its fundamental flaws.

Let me put it like this, if you're running out of swap, what do you do? Add more swap space or find out why you're running out and fix that instead?

Barnacle Bill said...

Wot's Swap?
Can I have some please?

dizzy said...

swap space

Barnacle Bill said...

Thanks for that Dizzy.
I remember virtual memory in OS 9 and before, but since OS X I have never bothered with it.
But much obliged for the reply - ta.
Now would you believe it - the word verification is unixrip!

dizzy said...

"but since OS X I have never bothered with it."

When you say you have never nothered with it what you mean is that you have never had to play with it right. You;re not suggesting that OSX - which is just BSD - doesn't use swap are you?

dizzy said...

Seriously, I am a little concerned now that you think OSX is (a) not Unix and (b) doesn't use a virtual memory sub-layer.

Anonymous said...

I thought they were all to be exterminated!

Anonymous said...

One of the issues regarding the unlimited supply of skilled migrant workers that I feel has not been covered sufficiently is how it is encouraging discrimination. All employers want skilled people that are cheap and ‘flexible’. What being ‘flexible’ often ranges from antisocial or long hours through to abuse. Traditionally this has meant the young. Older workers with exactly the same skills, but unwilling or unable to be ‘flexible’ for low pay were disposed of or rejected if they apply for the roles. The disabled or anyone with ‘issues’ (such as being a mother of school aged children) in their history had even worse prospects.

By allowing an unlimited supply of cheap and ‘flexible’ workers into the market place there is even less incentive for an employer to give the older, the disabled, or any other candidate even the first look. Economic expansion has masked much of this, but as soon as there is any downturn the demand to cut costs will cause a purge of ‘problem’ staff in favour of cheap and ‘flexible’ ones. Far from stopping immigration, a recession will encourage it.

Only with a constraint on the supply of cheap and ‘flexible’ immigrants will there is any chance of employers considering anyone else. People get older and have children; it is a fact of life and there is very little they can do about it. Most still need to work, but employers don’t want them when there is a near infinite supply of alternatives.

If you haven’t experienced this yet, it’s only a matter of time. It will happen to you one day.

Anonymous said...

We have 5 million economically inactive people in this country, which makes a mockery of the governments claim that we only have about a million unemployed people in this country.

We need to sort out our education system and start producing employable people.

AnyoneButBrown said...

What sort of state is our society in.
We pay 5.4 million people of working age basically to do nothing. We dress up the welfare as mostly for invalidity with a little job-seekers allowance. A simple glance at the stats shows that the vast majority of the benefit is paid in Labour's northern heartlands. I wonder why?
We import some 200,000 immigrants each year to keep our economic growth up and to do the jobs that the people sat on invalidity benefits would rather not do, as they would rather watch Jeremy Kyle, or taking these jobs will cut their income.
We kill just under 200,000 unborn babies each year, the vast majority of which are unwanted so abortion is used as a form of contraception.
Our society has lost its moral compass and purpose.

Barnacle Bill said...

Here here - letters from a tory said...
My eldest daughter did not go onto university because of the costs, and worry about future indebtedness. Although I was quite prepared to support her.
Luckily she got a well paying job with a certain designer clothing company. Only now she finds her employment threatened by Polish workers. Who are being paid on a daily rate and, not piece work like she is.
The youngest daughter left school with a bunch of qualifications in subjects I would never consider suitable if I was her future employer.
Now she realizes this and is trying to get back into college to get some "proper" qualifications.
Both of them have only known NuLabor education policies. Which is where I firmly place the responsibility.
Yes I have not had to bother with virtual memory swapping since OS X, and I love it's Unix origins!

flashgordonnz said...

"Cheap and Flexible"! As I mature, I am conscious of not pricing myself out of the market.
It is a idiot socialist that somehow thinks that private enterprise can treat everyone the same regardless of circumstance. At the end of the day, private enterprise exists to create wealth through goods and services to the public.
If a government wants to support working or non-working fathers or mothers, then they should do that themselves (with a proper mandate from the electorate). This government certainly does through tax credits and benefits (but where's the English mandate?).
But why should private enterprise get involved or care: they've paid their taxes so have the right to participate in a free market.