Monday, May 21, 2007

Can Tory Blogs do more to tackle "smears"?

Have just read an interesting piece by Watlington on the Social Affairs Unit blog called "The flaw of the Tory bloggers", I've been namechecked in it so I thought I would make a comment. Watlington suggests it seems that Tory bloggers like Iain Dale and ConservativeHome are in a way, too soft, with their critics, whichever direction those critics may come from.

Watlington goes on to say that the attacks they face (including attacks on me apparently) are smear campaigns, which we fail to tackle properly. Now, whilst Watlington does give some idea of how ConservativeHome could handle this, I'm not really sure what individual blogs like Iain or this one can or should do. Purely in relation to myself, I couldn't care less if I get attacked online, the flaming is half the reason I'm here, it's just a bit of fun.

However, if I, Iain, or any other political blogger for that matter was to engage in some sort of forceful rebuttal what you're going to end up with is a ping-pong match of flaming and quoting. If you take that route you end up spending your time "blogging about blogging", which, frankly, is boring. You'll also find yourself becoming obsessed with maybe one or two people who actually, in the wider scheme of things don't really matter very much.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

There's a huge difference between writing a professional blog and a personal one. It's entirely up to the individual how they react and deal with situations. I think Iain and Tim handle themselves brilliantly.

Watlington also mentions about new areas we should be developing. I will say I do have ideas about how we should be stepping up our social media tactics having read considerably on this subject for my latest PR postgraduate diploma, but I won't mention them here. I'm sure a few others are thinking along the same lines.

jailhouselawyer said...

I take issue with Watlington calling Iain Dale a genius. Iain Dale is not a genius. The label is false, it's not what's in the tin. I don't know if Iain Dale accepts this label or would describe himself as a lesser person than a genius. I have called Iain Dale both a liar and a hypocrite and have proved both charges. Iain Dale then gets upset by what I have called him in public, understandable as it is said that the truth hurts.

Conservativehome is not a leading blogger, rather it is a blog, therefore once again the genius label has been misapplied.

I have already pointed out Iain Dale's flaw, and would agree with Watlington that it is a significant flaw.

Watlington errs in law by referring to true representations by critics as misrepresentations, and smeared is usually associated with a dirty tricks campaign, and is not necessarily used by their opponents. The truth is not smeared it is told. Lies are smeared.

A fault with Iain Dale emerged on 18DS last night, when he said "If they have an agenda there's no reasoning with them". However, Phil Wheatley, Director General of the Prison Service, takes a different approach. He said, "If I'm in the wrong, I hold my hands up and apologise. Then I try not to make the same mistake again". I would say that that makes Phil Wheatley a better man than Iain Dale. Simply because he can see the error of his ways. He can also recognise intelligence when he sees it, and when he is dealing with a force to be reckoned with. Iain Dale seems to think that he can get away with insulting some peoples higher intelligence. He needs to address this offending behaviour.

Iain Dale is neither a remarkable nor a shrewd character. I describe his tantrums as childish like he is throwing his toys out of the pram. It is playground politics where his mentality is at.

Watlington underestimates certain enemies. You don't destroy me. You deal with me. I have destroyed bigger and better opponents than Iain Dale. I like a challenge. We can mediate, or negotiate a settlement. Otherwise you can play whilst you sink.

Anonymous said...

I can think of one person in particular who seems to spend all his spare time on people like you. He has no life. Better to just ignore the muppets.

dizzy said...

JailhouseLawyer have you met Iain? He's very tall you know, I'm sure when you destroyed her she was shorter than him.

Unsworth said...

What is particularly annoying for many is when some obsessives use each and every opportunity to parade their personal - and remarkably inane - fixations. A fine example being 'jailhouselawyer'.

Eventually readers learn to automatically tune out the background noise, so the whole point is lost. Why on earth do these fixated individuals believe that anyone is remotely interested in what amounts to a private spat? True, it's slightly amusing initially but the novelty wears off pretty rapidly.

Sometimes however the decision not to respond is just as effective as all-out nuclear retaliation. It takes a certain level of wisdom and maturity to make that choice.

Anonymous said...

Nothing like attacking the man rather than the idea, eh jailhouselawyer?

Anonymous said...

"I have destroyed bigger and better oponents than Iain Dale..."
You must be so proud Hirst.

Iain is the enemy, destroy, he must be exterminated

A dalek

Anonymous said...

Methinks jailhouselawyer might be repressing a hiddn desire for Iain ...

Unknown said...

Tory blogs are not 'on-message'. They are too democratic. Compare that with the rigid socialist media control exercised by A Campbell in the mid-90s.

Watlington is right. Campbell was a very efficient election winner by controlling information. But now with the internet, we cannot go back to those days. Good.

Anonymous said...

Melissa Kite? Well, I mean you would, wouldn't you?

Athos said...

I suspect that the second reply here was more of a desperate plea to get in on any smear campaign rather than expression of it.

jailhouselawyer said...

Dizy: No I haven't met Iain, he said he would like to meet me then he bottled out. In my experience, bullies tend to do that when they are confronted. As for size, it doesn't matter, the bigger they are the harder they fall. Obviously, your narrow mind only concentrates on one incident, therefore where does the Dizzy Thinks come from? My reputation in prison for violence and survival was not gained as a result of my landlady it was a hard fought for respect.

Chuck Unsworth: I am hardly a fine example of what you describe. I will leave that fine accolade to Tim Ireland. I have a strong sense of injustice and pursue the evil doer until justice has been served.

Paleo: Funny you should say that, which is exactly what Iain Dale's sock puppets do and Dizzy has fallen into the same trap. If you read my comment I have attacked the idea.

dizzy said...

Did someone say something?

Anonymous said...

About this link business?

Tory blogs do more to tackle smears? Such as the libel option as favoured by that right-wing libertarian Giudo Fawkes?

Dizzy have you lost a debate to an "axe murderer"?

dizzy said...

Lost a debate? Was I having one?

Anonymous said...

Dizzy you write a post stating that Tory bloggers do not do enough to counter smears. Apart from threaten libel action.

As for Guido he gets the attention from the likes of Tim Ireland and others because he has held in high regard as a blogger and subsequent events have proven that he is a plonker of the highest order.

As for Dale well JL has dealt with him.

Tory bloggers have been anointed by the MSM media as blogging experts. Guido Fawkes newsnight appearance a prime example of car crash television blew that apart.

As for yourself Dizzy you have been involved in this blog war between Dale/Guido and Tim Ireland by preventing Tim from deeplinking to their respective blogs. Its better to stay out of it. Which contradicts the last line of your post.

Watlington post should be about Tory bloggers being given an easy ride by the MSM media. Unfortunately they are the Tory bloggers of low morals and low intellects.

Dale and Staines are being used by the MSM to discredit bloggers of all political hues. They deserve all the opprobium they get.

dizzy said...

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"Dizzy you write a post stating that Tory bloggers do not do enough to counter smears. Apart from threaten libel action."
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No I didn't. You clearly have a reading comprehension problem. Presumably this came from surviving all the roastings on Pickled Politics. Time to roast you here I think. What I did was write a post about someone saying that, and then proceed to say that I don't see how its particularly possible. To then extrapolate that I said the complete opposite is little short of intellectual incompetence.

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"As for Guido he gets the attention from the likes of Tim Ireland and others because he has held in high regard as a blogger and subsequent events have proven that he is a plonker of the highest order."
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Why are you telling me this and what relevance does it have as to whether they should or should not react? You're simply restating the facts already expressed in the post that they're facing attention from others. What's your point?


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"As for Dale well JL has dealt with him."
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Good for him, what the fuck does that have to do with me again?


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"Tory bloggers have been anointed by the MSM media as blogging experts."
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Says who and on the basis of what evidence?


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"Guido Fawkes newsnight appearance a prime example of car crash television blew that apart."
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He's not a Tory. He's not a member. What's more, you're conflating one person as being representative of all. Presumably, given you think that logic is sound you'd have no problem extrapolating that all black people are criminals based on a single experience of crime perpetrated by a black person?


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"As for yourself Dizzy you have been involved in this blog war between Dale/Guido and Tim Ireland by preventing Tim from deeplinking to their respective blogs. Its better to stay out of it. Which contradicts the last line of your post."
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Actually it doesn't contradict my last line. Again you've failed to read what I said and instead read what you wanted. I actually said that if you "engage in some sort of forceful rebuttal what you're going to end up with is a ping-pong match of flaming and quoting. If you take that route you end up spending your time "blogging about blogging", which, frankly, is boring. You'll also find yourself becoming obsessed with maybe one or two people who actually, in the wider scheme of things don't really matter very much."

This is the one thing that has NOT been done. Neither Iain, or Guido, or I, have responded to any of the lengthy diatribes with new lengthy diatribes which quote line by line and then comment. The reason for not doing that is because that will provoke a post in return, and it will go on and on. Instead, it's more fun to wind Tim up in a hit n run piss take. Take the piss, laugh at him, then don't do anything for months.

I didn't say it's "better to stay out of it", I said it's better not to take a particular route in dealing with it. You do like making claims that I said things I didn't don't you? Must be all that time you spend on Pickled Politics where intellectual rigour is tested to the extreme?


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"Watlington post should be about Tory bloggers being given an easy ride by the MSM media."
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No, Watlington's post should be about what Watlington wants to post about. If you think that subject should be written about then you go and do it instead.


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"Unfortunately they are the Tory bloggers of low morals and low intellects."
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How ironic, over at JHL's blog you mention name calling and now you're doing it yourself. My how loose and fast you are with your standards of argumentation. And isn,t it rather funny that, in a post where you've made stuff about what I said, and displayed the most appalling sort of logic that could easily be used to justify genocide, you accuse others of having a low intellect?


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"Dale and Staines are being used by the MSM to discredit bloggers of all political hues. They deserve all the opprobium they get."
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Right. So it's a big MSM conspiracy. Got any proof?