Thursday, February 22, 2007

Those shifting goalposts on Iraq exposed

I'm not going to pontificate on this for long, but I urge everyone to take a look at the Independent today. The front page of the newspaper feature Patrick Cockburn, and the first two pages are opinion commentary masquerading as news on the subject of Iraq and British troop pull outs. The commentary section is also full of the usual suspects banging on about the announcement yesterday.

The line? Well guess what. The paper that has been moaning about the illegality of the Iraq war and supports withdrawal is now saying that this withdrawal is all wrong and we're leaving Iraq in a mess and running away from our responsibilities.

You'll note that Ming Campbell is even quoted in Steve Richards column from PMQs yesterday, saying "we must take responsibility for the consequences of our actions". So let's get the Lib Dems position straight. We must withdraw troops by the deadline of October but we must also take responsibility for the consequences of our actions.

The Independent and the Lib Dems have a lot in common really. They don't particularly care who ins running the country and making decisions, they just know that whoever it is they're doing it wrong. I wonder where the goalposts of the argument will shift to next?


Anonymous said...

There are two very different issues at stake here, and you are trying to claim the ideas put forward are incompatible, but they are perfectly acceptable. Because Iraq has been invaded, it is now the responsibility of the invaders to make it a better place. The invasion cannot be undone, so it does not make sense to withdraw. Doing so would make the impact of the invasion even worse. What we are facing now is a very bad scenario. The US and UK have removed the power structure from the country, and are itching to leave asap. This will leave the country in a complete mess. The views of the Independent and Lib Dems show what is in the best interest of Iraq, the Middle East and the rest of the world, and are not just a childish reply of whatever New Labour/ the US does is wrong!

dizzy said...

unadulterated bullshit.

You cannot demand withdrawal on the one hadn and then moan about it when it happens with the next. It's rank hypocrisy and exemplifies the sloppy intellectual positioning of the anti-war/anti-western argument that is formulated around a common paradigm.

Buenaventura Durruti said...

I think the Indie has been pretty consistent in saying (1) the war was unjustified and illegal (2) but having created a situation we are responsible for dealing with it.

Personally I disagree with the Powell 'if you break it you own it' doctrine in the circumstance where, as in Iraq, we broke it and our continued presence 'exacerbates the security problems' (Dannatt).

dizzy said...

Yes you;re right. The Indie is consistent. It is consistent in arguing that whatever the West does is wrong in all cases.

If we stay we are wrong for exacerbating the problems. If we leave we are wrong for breaking it and buggering off.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Same logic applies to anything America either does or doesn't do.

Theo Spark said...

Dizzy I don't read comics!

dizzy said...

I only do it so I have something to write about

Anonymous said...

You are very wrong. Bliars statement yesterday was the low point of his shocking tenure. To withdraw, leaving the country in turmiol, leaving our ally on its own, leaving have destroyed Iraqi and its people is shameful. To do so in direct contravention of every reason he used to justify our presence is nothing short of treason.

We intervened to spread democracy, freedom and other cobblers. Why have we stayed this long only to skip out before achieving one thing. What he has done is prove that there was NO reason to go in the first place, no reason to stay trying to achieve mythical goals and now deprive them of honour in leaving.

Words fail me to describe the pitiful performance on radio 4 today. Literally a shaming moment for all of us.

dizzy said...

no, I am right and you just proved my point. Whatever we do in Iraq will be wrong for the anti-war intellectualism-lite brigade

Anonymous said...

Catch 22 situation Dizzy I am afraid to say.
We were wrong to have been involved in this from the beginning.
But we are morally wrong if we cut and run if the task of undoing this evil is a price too high for the politicans who got us into it.
A solution might be to ship this NuLabor government and it's hanger-ons out there to fill the power vacum left by our withdrawal.

Anonymous said...

Dizzy - I'm with you. I couldn't believe it when I saw the Indy today and heard the complaints. I'm sure the LDs and the rest have been campaigning for a pull out for ages. Whether they're right or wrong, to complain when Blair indicates that we are now doing so is just flabbergasting.

Neil Reddin said...

The LDs want everyone out by October ... and we should stay and sort out the mess ... and we should support the troops, who they say are engaging in an illegal occupation.

Bl**dy typical LibDem/Indy quadruple-think. What'll it be next week?

Anonymous said...

I agree Dizzy. It was inevitable. I think it's shameful that Blair has given in to the likes of the Limp Dums and started a retreat.

Are the Iraqi police and army really ready to take control of the country?

If Iraq is in a worse state this time next year, the do-goody Left will have it on their collective consciousness. Except they won't, because their moral relativity will lead them to blame Blair and America.

Anonymous said...

The Independent has evolved into a lousy newspaper, far worse than the Grauniad.

I am told that if you look across the BBC newsrooms it is the only newspaper you can see. Not a Telegraph in sight.

Anonymous said...

The Independent is written for Lib-Dems supporters, the editor and all his staff are doing a wonderful job of keeping the whingeing muddle-heads happy if you ask me.