Wednesday, December 12, 2007

The world has gone mad

As an Evertonian can you imagine what the reaction would be if I tried to sue Liverpool for wearing red, the colour of vicious communists and thus offending me during a derby that they won? Imagine if I said that colour red represented the great terror and oppression of thw worst dictators in the world and that the FA should annul the result. I would, quite rightly, be laughed at for a very long time for being a bit mental and a sore loser to boot.

This though really is now happening at the UEFA level. Some Turkish lawyer is suing Inter-Miland for wearing a white kit with a big red cross on it (the symbol of Milan) during their home match against the Turkish side Fenerbahce that they won 3-0. Apparently it was offensive to Muslims because it reminds them of Templar Knights and the Crusades and symbolises 'Western racist superiority over Islam'. Seriously, this is not a joke. The Turkish paper Radikal asked 'How could UEFA allow this?'

OK, reality check time. Just because someone wears a red cross it does not mean that they are trying to remind people of the Crusades. What about the Red Cross? Are the Turks suing them? What about all the English clubs that have fans that go to matches in Turkey, and, whilst they're not being stabbed to death, drape the Cross of St George (who was a Turk) in the stadium? Are there complaints to UEFA about that? Of course there aren't.

As for the reference to Western racist superiority. The West as a concept didn't even bloody exist during the Crusades. Racist butchering in the name of Christ it may have been - a bit like the Armenian genocide was racist butchering but lets not go there - but it had bugger all to do with something called the West. The issue is far simpler than conjuring up some perceived sleight. Fenerbahce got the arses kicked away from home and a bad loser has decided to make a pathetic race card issue of it. He should get a grip.


Anonymous said...

Of course the Red Cross is called the Red Crescent in Muslim countries and does not display a red cross

Nobody wants to offend the sensitive Muslims. Although it's OK to give a woman the lashes for being raped.

robert fisk's mum said...

There was no Armenian genocide. The Armenians all spontaneously decided to die, as part of a traitorous pro-Western plot to discredit the Ottoman Empire and allow the American oil companies to.... oh well, you know the rest.

Newmania said...

The West as a concept didn't even bloody exist during the Crusades.

Really,and yet the concept of Chistendom was very old and arguably the West is much the same thing. Can it really be true to say there was no concept of the West after the split of the Roman Empire ? I think this is slightly sophist young Dizzy and I also wonder if you are not a little dismissive . They do a look a bit like Knights Templar.

How would one feel about a shirt that looked a bit like a swatika ...actually we`d all laugh . OK they are arses

dizzy said...

I'd have to disagree that Christendom and the West are the same. The idea of something being "Western" relates to the Enlightenment period, conceptually that is where talk of the "West" is from. That's not to say Christendom didn't come geographically from the west of Muslim land of course. And of course I'm dismissive, it's what I do.

exSoclib said...

Sorry Dizzy, you're not comparing like for like here!!

Firstly England fans are different to the England team...the fans are tollerated because they don't have accountabilty for anyone other than themselves (ignoring the general poor opinion of the nation as a result of their actions abroad).

Secondly while it may not have been 'the West' at the time, as we saw it, we're clearly from the same lands!! (a general westerly direction!)

The point about the Red Cross actually showing some cultural sensitivity is a good one, but the swastika is also an example, but imagine some fans of Tottenham's reaction rather than yours...!

Also I imagine communists have done nothing to you personally...apart from dieing so you could be free...but you'd probably disagree with that here as you seem to also fall in the trap of confusing authitarianism and communism...

...capitalism is forced on us, but I don't hear you complaining about that...nope, just pandering to xenophobics - nice one!

Anonymous said...

It is based on the shield/coat of arms of Milan (wikipedia it) and was their kit in the 30s or 40s.

Apparently, that shield is based on the crest of St Ambrose, so ... there's really no justification for it, is there?

I think Sevilla have a similar kit.

dizzy said...

What a load of politically correct claptrap. The cross is the symbol of Milan for christ sake.

Communism is authoritarianism by design.

As for pandering to xenophobics what a load of bollocks. This entire story is complete nonsense of Nth degree. I bet they wouldn't have complained if they'd won.

dizzy said...

"Apparently, that shield is based on the crest of St Ambrose, so ... there's really no justification for it, is there?"

NO justificationf or what? The legal case or the kit? If the latter, St Ambrose was born in the 4th Century. The Crusades were in the 11th, 12th and 13th Century, and the cross in the crusades was, it seems from pictures at least, a white one on a red background.

If you emant the former then I agree.

Fidothedog said...

Maybe that chap needs to be reminded that the crusades were a re-action to moslem aggression.

That by the time Pope Urban started that nearly one third of the Christian world was either occupied or regularly attacked by moslems.

Yet still they whine that it was Christian aggression?

Anonymous said...

The case.
Sorry for any confusion.

dizzy said...

Fair enough.

Anonymous said...

If they're going to go down that route, why don't he sue neighbours Georgia, whose flag has five such crosses on it.

Talk about rubbing it in!

Chris Paul said...

Strange and rather ugly kit though don't you think? Do they play in it a lot these Milanos??

exSoclib said...

By design?!?? Who designed it that way then, and why would they do so?

I can't read such unfounded beliefs, surely driven by society's 'accepted views must be right' phenonoma, and not feel to help with your's a brief introduction:

Communism, to many people, is a dirty word. For much of this century, communism has been associated with Russia, a country which, in fact, has as its social system, not communism or socialism, but a particularly vicious and totalitarian form of State capitalism. Genuine socialists and libertarian communists have had an unenviable task of demonstrating that neither communism nor socialism exists - or has ever existed - in such countries as Russia, Cuba or even Yugoslavia. They have also had to explain that communism, in a primitive form, has indeed existed, as a form of society, for much of Humanity's existence on this planet, for perhaps over a million years.

See for more info, if you can read it with an open mind!

I hope that helps, if you're not too set in your ways already...

dizzy said...

"By design?!?? Who designed it that way then, and why would they do so? "

It is inherent in the German Ideology.. you've read that right?

dizzy said...

"I hope that helps, if you're not too set in your ways already..."

I'm pretty sure that I have read far more Left wing political philosophy than most. The materialist dialetic by definition results in authoritarian control of production and with it material life.

marcus said...

Good point Dizzy - one thing though. St George (if he lived at all) lived in what we now call Turkey almnost a thousand years before the Turks migrated into the region and conquered it for Islam. He was from Cappadocia.

Ed said...

I quite like the shirt.

Serf said...

As a Fenerbahce fan and an Englishman, I am rather stuck in the middle :)

Mind you, noone has ever complained when I wore my St George Cross Cufflinks.

dizzy said...

serf is alive?

Patriot said...

The World Elite are goading us all into strife, its all part of the Master Plan.
Regionalisation, Devolution. Yugoslavia.

From an email sent to XXXXX.........

Joan Martin, a UKIP member, and former PPC for Winchester has produced a most interesting piece of research, and by so doing has answered questions such as these:

“Why is Gordon Brown so determined to force this treaty down our collective necks when it is clear that he has no mandate to do so, there seems to be a huge majority of people against it and he appears to be in danger of committing political suicide by doing so?

Can someone explain to me why? What is so worth throwing away 1000 years of “we the people” culling our freedoms and rights, such as they are, from an uncaring aristocracy just to give it away to an uncaring bureaucracy? “

Joan Martin’s research is set out below:


The Abolition of Private Property

The Abolition of the Family.

The Abolition of Countries and Nationalities.

The Abolition of all Religions, morality and Religious Liberty, this shows the Hegelians Idealism.

The Abolition of Freedom of conscience. In a Democracy people believe in the freedom to choose.

The word Communist covers anyone who aspires to World Government.

Marxism works towards achieving World Government and World Dictatorship.

Marx and his friends Engles and Balunin received their ideas from Moses Hess the founder of the German Social Democrat Party. Moses Hess taught that to gain a World State it could only be brought about by a revolution using class and racial hatred. He said race struggle is primary, class struggle is secondary.”

Mikhail Balunin said “That what ever the name or label of those who aspire to world government they must be prepared to awake the devil in people and stir their passions for them to act.” Passion as with football hooligans, vandals and various peace groups and the race groups.


Marx wrote three requirements for those who wished to join the fight for World Government.

1 To read the Communist and Revolutionary teachings of Marx and associates and work accordingly.

2 To work to destabilise nations both morally and financially.

3 To work to gain political control of the MONEY supply and the ASSETS of each Nation and put them BEYOND the REACH and CONTROL of each Government by ensuring that nations become INTER-DEPENDANT on each other for FOOD, MACHINERY and through LOANS.

Marx also said, “Steps should be taken to provide a master race to produce Leaders and Dictators”

There's a lot more but it's too long to post.