tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post4665473010915324008..comments2023-12-11T08:49:46.305+00:00Comments on Dizzy Thinks: "We didn't know" from the Government is not credibleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-5461586660273989902008-11-30T02:17:00.000+00:002008-11-30T02:17:00.000+00:00Well. There wouldn't be much point informing the p...Well. There wouldn't be much point informing the people who ordered it to happen, and those people wouldn't be lying if they said they wern't informed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-51942725817335839632008-11-29T01:51:00.000+00:002008-11-29T01:51:00.000+00:00"We didn't know about the arrest beforehand" is cr..."We didn't know about the arrest beforehand" is credible, probably because ministers told the police not to tell them until after an arrest had been made.<BR/><BR/>"We didn't know about the investigation until we heard about the arrest" would not be plausible, but you haven't heard that, although it would be the most logical thing to say if it was true.<BR/><BR/>Conclusion: Ministers probably did know about the investigation, but told the police not to tell minister about any arrests until they had been made.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775753218753337766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-56812133944740029202008-11-28T13:17:00.000+00:002008-11-28T13:17:00.000+00:00Plenty of journalists have been arrested for recei...Plenty of journalists have been arrested for receiving leaked documents. <BR/><BR/>Should MPs be above the law?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-77419635315041596792008-11-28T11:54:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:54:00.000+00:00I take your point, Dizzy, but I don't think my com...I take your point, Dizzy, but I don't think my comments stand or fall on whether or not it's only the right that is claiming to be outraged. Let me try and put it a bit more clearly:<BR/><BR/>1. In my view, many of those on the right making a big fuss about this are hypocrites for the reasons already given (the 'false outrage' point).<BR/><BR/>2. I do not claim that all those on the right are in the same position. Some are genuine libertarians (perhaps you are one, Dizzy) who would have been outraged regardless of the colour of the rosette as you put it. <BR/><BR/>3. Nor have I made any comment on left-wing reaction. Here, actually I would expect some outrage because of the much greater leftist tradition of rule-breaking to reveal and challenge state misconduct and abuse of power. But this wasn't really my original point.<BR/><BR/>Does that clarify?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-21127475755867812162008-11-28T11:44:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:44:00.000+00:00You;ve just come in here and accused everyone with...You;ve just come in here and accused everyone with a bvoradr brush of having false outrage. have you actually read the comment on this across the board? It's not just the right that have reacted to it and gone "that's a bit off" you know. Take a look at the left leaning blogs.<BR/><BR/>"Just seemed like blatant hypocrisy to make such a fuss about it when a Tory MP is on the wrong end of it."<BR/><BR/>I would actually make a fuss about it whatever colour rosette the MP wore actually. It would have been equally dodgy had it been reported thus in a counter-factual world:<BR/><BR/>"Prime Minister John Major denied all knowledge of last night's police operation in which Robin Cook , Shadow Home Secretary ,was arrested under a 300 year old law for receiving confidential Government documents.<BR/><BR/>The documents which were leaked to the press showed the Conservative Government knew that Coventry based Matrix Churchill were supplying arms to Iraq in contravention of UN arms embargoes."<BR/><BR/>The above example was written on Labour homedizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-30366747467251471532008-11-28T11:37:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:37:00.000+00:00Calm down, Dizzy! Try and keep up. Or are you just...Calm down, Dizzy! Try and keep up. Or are you just pretending to be dumb? I'm sure you actually understood the point I was making and are well aware that it didn't hinge on whether or not you ever wore that badge or uttered those words!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-52968743917038995172008-11-28T11:33:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:33:00.000+00:00Nice try, Dizzy, but you are simply speculating th...Nice try, Dizzy, but you are simply speculating that this is all about Home Office embarrassment. Maybe yes, maybe no, but you don't know that any more than I do. In what way is this not an 'active' investigation into a 'specific' allegation and offence? Surely the arrest and detention would have been unlawful otherwise and, as far as I'm aware, no-one has suggested that yet.<BR/><BR/>As to the straw man, yes, I hold my hands up to putting the point a bit over-forcefully! However, it remains the case that police misconduct is an ongoing daily matter that right-wing defenders of individual liberty seem remarkably sanguine about. My insinuation (my turn to speculate) is that this is because usually it only affects a certain sector of the population that the right cares little for. Just seemed like blatant hypocrisy to make such a fuss about it when a Tory MP is on the wrong end of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-26412930590097364392008-11-28T11:28:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:28:00.000+00:00"This false outrage is hilarious. Have you all los..."This false outrage is hilarious. Have you all lost your 'Mandela is a terrorist' badges now"<BR/><BR/>Don't think I have said that or worn a badge saying it, so I guess that makes that point yet another crappy, shitty, straw man pile of steaming bollocks.dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-82622350001904208602008-11-28T11:26:00.001+00:002008-11-28T11:26:00.001+00:00Hmmm... oin the cas of the former it was a active,...Hmmm... oin the cas of the former it was a active, public Police invetsigation into specifc allegations and offence. in the latter it was counter-terrorism police, counter-terrorism legislation all because of a leaked document that embarassed the Home Office?<BR/><BR/>"How about getting worked up about people getting the crap kicked out of them in police vans? No, thought not, they're just low-life to you."<BR/><BR/>Nice straw man.dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-10159136564285635612008-11-28T11:26:00.000+00:002008-11-28T11:26:00.000+00:00This false outrage is hilarious. Have you all lost...This false outrage is hilarious. Have you all lost your 'Mandela is a terrorist' badges now ("the law's, the law, you know, Crispin")? You know what we're all going to be subjected to now, don't you - that preening oaf David Davis talking crap all day across the TV and radio.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-51500324466316293172008-11-28T10:56:00.000+00:002008-11-28T10:56:00.000+00:00I cannot believe the pompous, sanctimonious guff b...I cannot believe the pompous, sanctimonious guff being spouted about this across the right-wing blogosphere. He got arrested, he was held for a few hours, his office was searched - happens all the time to 'ordinary' people and you lot don't give a toss. There wasn't much outrage when the police were doing dawn raids on Blair's aide in the cash-for-honours investigation. How about getting worked up about people getting the crap kicked out of them in police vans? No, thought not, they're just low-life to you. If it turns out Green hasn't committed an offence, he'll get off; if he has, hopefully he won't. Simple as that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-63543417240040945562008-11-28T10:23:00.000+00:002008-11-28T10:23:00.000+00:00What a waste of space this Speaker is. He is suppo...What a waste of space this Speaker is. He is supposed to defend parliamentary democracy, instead he allows the Met to enter Mr Green's office - why? If I were one of his constituents I would be worried that privileged correspondence may now be in the Met. <BR/>The Speaker is in league with the PM, his support of the Treasury/OGC in the High Court to prevent FOI disclosure of the ID Cards Gateway review is yet another example of his partisan behaviour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-74938404090805829932008-11-28T10:21:00.000+00:002008-11-28T10:21:00.000+00:00This is a disgrace - sheer contempt for Parliament...This is a disgrace - sheer contempt for Parliament.<BR/><BR/>The Home Secretary must resign - not just her office but her seat, because she clearly has no concept of the proper duty of Parliament.<BR/><BR/>The Tories (and the Lib Dems, if they really believe in freedom) should refuse to attend Parliament until this is sorted out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-39606529955776226002008-11-28T10:07:00.000+00:002008-11-28T10:07:00.000+00:00Astonishing - the information was in the public in...Astonishing - the information was in the public interest. Leaks from civil servants happen all the time. This is a witch hunt for the whistle blower...I'm afraid Gordon Brown's government have abused their power once too often. This could be the final straw for the Labour government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-16789520275867008242008-11-28T09:14:00.000+00:002008-11-28T09:14:00.000+00:00Th arrest was, it seems, for 'conspiracy', based o...Th arrest was, it seems, for <A HREF="http://prodicus.blogspot.com/2008/11/who-laid-information-before-knacker.html" REL="nofollow">'conspiracy'</A>, based on information laid before the police by someone in the Cabinet Office. We need to know who (political) and what (judicial).Prodicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18024865482933469271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-28682623205968626482008-11-28T08:59:00.000+00:002008-11-28T08:59:00.000+00:00Do bear in mind that Ministers only claim that the...Do bear in mind that Ministers only claim that they did not know. I, for one, wil withhold judgement on that score for now.<BR/><BR/>Assuming they actually did not know, the question I want to ask is "why didn't you?". After all, we pay these people to organise our public services for us. Why are they not keeping proper bounds on them?patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-78541484460076380562008-11-28T08:53:00.000+00:002008-11-28T08:53:00.000+00:00I agree that it stinks - but the point about the S...I agree that it stinks - but the point about the Speaker and Serjeant is flawed - the police (and the normal courts) have no jurisdiction inside the Houses of Parliament, so they would have needed permission from the Serjeant (at least) to enter. That is just a simple practicality. <BR/><BR/>Of course notifying David Cameron is rather different...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22202011.post-21839870295469756542008-11-28T08:50:00.000+00:002008-11-28T08:50:00.000+00:00I really hope someone like Jacqui Smith is found t...I really hope someone like Jacqui Smith is found to be linked to this case. The fact that counter-terrorism officers were used suggests that someone very high up must have been informed about this yet did nothing to stop it.<BR/><BR/>Every Conservative is hoping that this political boomerang comes back to hit Labour square in the face.Letters From A Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14612766550608940053noreply@blogger.com